We now know why the new Honda Civic Si only makes 205 horsepower

"Is my name good?, wants a BMW wagon" (apancake)
04/12/2017 at 15:42 • Filed to: None

BECAUSE MONEY!!!

According to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! :

“....going with a high-output 1.5-liter engine was a matter of affordability and which team developed the car. While it may have been possible to detune a Type R 2.0-liter engine, the cost would have still been high to use the engine, even in low-output form.”

DISCUSSION (25)

Chuckles > Is my name good?, wants a BMW wagon
04/12/2017 at 15:48

It makes sense to me. You can always make a car more powerful, but you might end up outside of the price point you were shooting for.

Textured Soy Protein > Is my name good?, wants a BMW wagon
04/12/2017 at 15:48

The GTI has 210 to 220 hp. The Si has 205 hp. Yet everyone’s bagging on the Si for not being more powerful. Sure it’s a 1.5 liter motor vs. a 2.0 liter, and the GTI probably can make more power when tuned than the Si, but let’s see how the real-world, stock-for-stock performance of the two cars stacks up.

TheHondaBro > Is my name good?, wants a BMW wagon
04/12/2017 at 15:49

The base 1.5T Civic gets to 60 in 6.5 seconds. It really doesn’t need any more than 205 horsepower.

Milky > Textured Soy Protein
04/12/2017 at 16:00

You could also argue the GTI isn’t where it should be either. The ST and WRX both make over 250hp.

Bytemite > Is my name good?, wants a BMW wagon
04/12/2017 at 16:03

1.5 liter turbo with 205 horsepower? How can you complain about that. It’ll be lighter than the 2.0 engine, be more efficient, use less expensive parts, and keep the purchase price near an attainable 25k.

Makes sense to me.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Is my name good?, wants a BMW wagon
04/12/2017 at 16:03

I don’t get the hate. The Si was never a dedicated sports car to begin with—it has always been a more powerful Civic for those who wanted an injection of fun in their daily cars.

Add more power and people start to complain about torque steer, as on the Mazdaspeed 3—a much less refined car.

The increase in torque already means that the incoming Si will be faster than the old one.

Bytemite > Milky
04/12/2017 at 16:05

How exactly does the GTI make so little power out of a 2.0 liter turbo? I know they already scheme you out of 10 horsepower with the “performance package”. But if they’re going to cheat their customers, it should start at like 280 hp at the very least with a bump to 300 hp with a package. Even then, those numbers aren’t impressive when others are making 350 hp with 2 liters. At this point 210 hp from 2.0 is just embarrassing...that is NA levels of output.

If they want to keep the output the same then downsize the engine...I’m sure VW can make that 210-220 hp out of a much smaller 1.5 liter.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Milky
04/12/2017 at 16:06

The ST and WRX are also much less appealing to the greater buying market.

The ST is small and relatively unrefined, with a lower-rent interior. For a DD, I would not consider owning one over an Si.

The WRX, while not as cramped as the Focus, is also more expensive and less satisfying to sit in than the new Civic. I will admit that I would have trouble choosing between a new Si or the WRX.

TheHondaBro > Bytemite
04/12/2017 at 16:08

They probably detuned it for longevity. The last car you’d want to have require a major engine overhaul at 100,000 miles is a Volkswagen.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Bytemite
04/12/2017 at 16:09

They tuned their turbo/engine combination for more torque, not for more hp.

Bytemite > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
04/12/2017 at 16:11

Even then, they have less effective HP curve than the 2.0 liter FoST engine, the 2.0 liter Hyundai engine, the 2.0 liter Mitsubishi engine, the 2.0 liter Subaru engine, etc. I can go on. They’re slacking.

Milky > Bytemite
04/12/2017 at 16:13

Honestly I bet they work from the top down leaving room for each car. Start with the Golf R / GTI Clubsport with 300hp and work your way down.

Rico > Bytemite
04/12/2017 at 16:15

The Guilia does 280 HP out of a 2.0 turbo 4.

CB > Bytemite
04/12/2017 at 16:17

And yet the GTI gets constant praise. Horsepower isn’t everything.

Bytemite > Milky
04/12/2017 at 16:19

You’re absolutely right. Probably the biggest turn-off of German cars for me and likely why I’ll never buy them. Every car except for their top of the line, most expensive model seems to be made with leftovers and hand-me-downs. Like as if they tried to make their other offerings worse than what it could have been, even if it would have cost nothing to just make it better.

Bytemite > CB
04/12/2017 at 16:25

Correct. I don’t even care for more horsepower than it already has. Just that if you’re going to put in a 2.0 liter turbo, do it right instead of holding back just because it will deter buyers from your R trim.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Is my name good?, wants a BMW wagon
04/12/2017 at 16:40

It should be even lighter than the GTI too

GTI: 210bhp (220bhp with performance pack), 3030lbs (non sunroof)

Civic Si: 205bhp, 2840lbs (from EX-T manual coupe, includes sunroof)

sounds like they’re matched well on paper. Let the testing reveal it all!

uofime-2 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
04/12/2017 at 16:51

German HP rating vs Japanese Hp rating though

I bet if you throw the golf on a dyno it lays down 200 hp and the civic lays down more like 160

Milky > Bytemite
04/12/2017 at 16:53

This just slightly re-triggered me with Benz and their 4.0L V8's horsepower.

456 / 469 / 500 / 503 / 515 / 549 / 563 / 577 / 604

You know half of those are just tunes.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > uofime-2
04/12/2017 at 18:04

Well, the Civic is rated at 174bhp and 162lb.ft torque at the crank and it makes 177whp and 190wtq on a dyno

So what was that again about German HP vs Japanese HP?

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-honda-civic-1-5t-dyno-suggests-underrated-horsepower-torque/

uofime-2 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
04/12/2017 at 22:50

Cvts are very goofy to dyno they even say they’re surprised and doubt it

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > uofime-2
04/12/2017 at 22:56

Jeez,

here’s another done on a manual EX-T on a dynojet, which would be closer to crank numbers

191hp, 192lb.ft.... on 87 octane.... still higher than the published crank numbers

TheHondaBro > Textured Soy Protein
04/13/2017 at 10:53

Tuners have already managed to chip the 1.5T to 280whp.

Justino6969 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
04/13/2017 at 12:43

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7465

Stock GTI makes about 220/270 on a dyno. Rated at 220/280.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Justino6969
04/13/2017 at 12:47

Well I’m not saying the GTI doesn’t make that power. I know for fact already that the GTI is underrated. My point to him was that the Civic is also underrated unlike his assertion that Japanese cars aren’t underrated like the Germans.

in fact, my argument assumes that the Civic (Japanese), just like the GTI (German) can be underrated.

See his statement here?

I bet if you throw the golf on a dyno it lays down 200 hp and the civic lays down more like 160